tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10881824.post114054975779739470..comments2024-02-17T07:44:05.334-08:00Comments on Sinning Boldly: The Invisible Things of GodAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17835278970174444409noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10881824.post-1140707795179779792006-02-23T07:16:00.000-08:002006-02-23T07:16:00.000-08:00Gerhard Forde has a very original discussion of th...Gerhard Forde has a very original discussion of the "hidden God" vs. the revealed God in <I>Where God Meets Man</I> (and elsewhere). I particularly like how he deals with the question of predestination - our natural bent (or natural theology, you might say!), he says, is to think of God as this inscrutable sovereign will that saves and damns, but what we need is to have God's gracious saving will revealed to us concretely (rather than as an abstraction which inevitably becomes law for us), which is why he comes to us in Jesus. <BR/><BR/>Though I'm not entierly sure how faithful Forde is being to the letter of Luther here, b/c Luther actually did seem to think that there was a "hidden will" of God that was, at least in principle, different from his revealed will. And that seems to undercut the comfort one derives from the gospel.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02047956333181611381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10881824.post-1140644426581015942006-02-22T13:40:00.000-08:002006-02-22T13:40:00.000-08:00Thomas,You're right, Luther's theology does indica...Thomas,<BR/><BR/>You're right, Luther's theology does indicate that people, by nature, are able to know the Law through nature, but Luther has an odd view of the Law, to say the least. He tends to distance the Law from God in as much as the Law is one of the things from which we are saved. It tends to fall on the "sin, death and the power of the devil" side of things for Luther. So, again, you're right in saying that Luther means we can only know this "in a negative sense". We can only know the Law that always condemns, accuses and works death.<BR/><BR/>Of course, the whole idea of even potentially not being aware that God is even there, so fundamental to many modern formulations of the question, would have been completely foreign to Luther.Andy Kaylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863052203418450397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10881824.post-1140612408511660112006-02-22T04:46:00.000-08:002006-02-22T04:46:00.000-08:00Good Theology of the Cross! The Late Gerhard Forde...Good Theology of the Cross! The Late Gerhard Forde would be proud.Rev. Kiddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13589654860570606783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10881824.post-1140586780706899252006-02-21T21:39:00.000-08:002006-02-21T21:39:00.000-08:00I'm glad that you brought Luther into the discussi...I'm glad that you brought Luther into the discussion, as I’ve always been unsure about where he stands regarding the “point of contact”. As you point out, his theology of the cross seems prohibit any form of natural theology. But on the other hand, his teachings on "law and gospel" assume and require a point of contact. As I intepret it, his theology suggests that people can know about God and his will through creation, but only in a negative sense (i.e., through the Law). To my way of thinking, his position is the equivalent of Tillich’s (more modern) argument that humans have an innate ability for asking radical questions about God, but not for providing the corresponding answers. For both Luther and Tillich, the negative knowledge of God gained through sin and doubt prepares the way for God’s positive revelation through Christ. Natural theology is rejected, but the “point of contact” is retained. <BR/><BR/>I really like your comment about the difference between knowing about God and actually knowing God. And you’re absolutely right that the prophets weren’t giving seminars about God’s divine qualities – they were trying to mediate a God/human encounter. As Amos said, “Prepare to meet your God, O Israel.”Thomas Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16168017369500841150noreply@blogger.com